New Windows 10 rant, feel free to add to it :)

Discussion in 'Misc Discussion' started by Glenn, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Glenn

    Glenn Administrator Staff Member

    RS3 will be out in September (as a final version at least), leaks that may be the final might appear earlier but with the bad results they get each release I am not sure it's worth getting until a patch after each update, the release bugs are show stoppers in some cases.

    We also will only have 18 months of support for each release, meaning if they release RS4 & 5 next year, RS1 will fall off the supported OS's list, so if it is the best on your hardware (most stable) it will not receive updates without getting the latest RS version first.

    On top of that I am sick of each month it being a cumulative update, who has time to waste downloading a 700+MB file just to apply one added change from the last 700+MB file, it's stupid.
     
  2. bphlpt

    bphlpt A lowly staff member Staff Member

    In a way, we're victims of advances in technology. Today's hardware is fast enough, with big and cheap storage space, and cheap and fast enough broadband rates, that MS can easily afford to not be worried about bloated software, large and frequent updates, etc. The majority of users don't see it impacting their ability to look at the latest cat videos, which they use their phone to look at anyway. They don't know it can, and should, be any different.
     
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  3. The Freezer

    The Freezer Just this guy, you know Staff Member

    Yeah, those blasted updates are a big reason I gave up on Windows 10. And it seems to take far too long to actually update. At times I had thought it was stuck. You're not supposed to force it to reboot, but I would anyway and it'd come right back to the desktop just fine.

    It also doesn't help either that there's no choice in when they could happen -- unexpectedly and usually when I'm in the middle of doing something important like watching cat videos.
     
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  4. Trouba

    Trouba Administrator Staff Member

    The lack of small, specific updates & hotfixes and the emphasis on cumulative updates and "milestones" lends itself to exactly what we have seen so far: every iteration of Windows 10 introduces bugs you would normally only have to contend with when an OS is new or else with a Service Pack (which were far less frequent). On top of that, it's not just new features that produce bugs but also OS components that have been around since Vista. This makes any version of Win10 less stable than, for example, Win7 (although the update model for Win7 has also changed to a degree but at least it's feature-frozen).

    There is a distinct lack of UI refinement and responsiveness and clarity. I am not merely comparing that to Win7, but also to XP and before. Something has been lost in the UI. I think you can't get rid of visual depth to the degree that Win10 has. The other things are more along the lines of bugs and doing away with numerous refinements that MS has either shelved for now or forgotten about. I also have random UI hangs. Probably drivers, sure; but then there is that problem, immature drivers on seasoned hardware. All you can do is hope that some RS milestone will magically fix it all. Well, it hasn't yet and I don't believe RS3 will.

    If you bought the latest Win10 phone today for $700 you could still not install a feature-rich audio player, for example. Everything modern app is extremely dumbed-down and there is not enough choice. Google Store is better, Apple Store is better -- to the point of embarrassment. So there is simply not a lot of incentive anymore to want Windows. If Apple would not lock their hardware down so much I would probably switch. Android phones via the various mobile providers is starting to get on my nerves a bit too, it's been quite buggy upgrading my Samsung S6 to Android v7. But I will not pay $3000 for an Apple desktop.
     
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  5. Glenn

    Glenn Administrator Staff Member

    I don't even know a simple solution anymore, not one ecosystem has everything you need at a quality that is good enough... I think Windows 7 is also only good for those able to know when malware has got in and able to fix it, but Win 10 if much better for clueless people as it has it's own repair options (loses some data but not personal data).

    I am sure if I wrote up a grid off all the problems with each Eco system that apple would win BUT the place it doesn't win at is Price and simplicity to repair without data loss - I guess that is why they sell Cloud backup space etc... So it really does depend on what your doing with your devices and your skill level what is the best option now... I'd never give android to a entry level person who will not have time to learn tho, because it can be confusing if your not a Logical person.
     
  6. Trouba

    Trouba Administrator Staff Member

    For me, the requirement would be to build my own systems because the last time I bought a desktop PC I was a lot younger... Hackintosh seems fraught with problems so I don't think that will really be an option either.

    For now, I'm just going to enjoy Win7 and not think about it too much :) It's probably true what you say about Win7's security (vs Win10) but I have not personally encountered a surge in problems on Win7 computers (ones I 'oversee' anyway).

    I would consider getting an iPhone next time, but I'm not sure yet.
     
  7. The Freezer

    The Freezer Just this guy, you know Staff Member

    I've tried "modifying" the UI/Theme to give me back some depth -- Classic, Luna, or even Aero; but the victory would always be short lived. The OS would either get very unstable or the next (forced) update would wipe my changes.

    The drivers issue is really upsetting. For no apparent reason, random devices or peripherals "break" after an update. I'll never know if it's truly broken or not unless I boot up a live Windows 8.1 or Knoppix to test it. I could just reinstall (the working) Windows 10; but then I'd be back where I was after the next 40 minute reboot.

    So for now, I'm in a holding pattern with either Windows 7 (or 8.1 if it's a newer Dell -- they won't install Windows 7 for some unknown reason)
     
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  8. Trouba

    Trouba Administrator Staff Member

    Do you think it could be due to the newer processors getting no longer being supported in Win7 by Microsoft? (Here)
     
  9. The Freezer

    The Freezer Just this guy, you know Staff Member

    Those are are talking about not allowing Windows 7 updates on those processors. What I'm seeing is they won't allow Windows 7 period -- it'll install fully but then fail to boot or startup not even to safe-mode.
     
  10. Glenn

    Glenn Administrator Staff Member

    Freezer I have had a pre package PC fail to boot, it turned out to be that I had to set the BIOS to use IDE mode instead of AHCI (enhanced) I experienced the same thing, as soon as the OS was completely installed it would then attempt to use the enhanced drivers and that would BSOD it. Maybe if you come across another in the future give the BIOS a 2nd look.

    I really hope MS gets their ship together, I mean why would they make a new Driver method that is worse than the previous one? it is very weird that they did do it - if it was for one version - yeah OK it would be a regression, but they have had it for 3 full releases now, so they are not testing properly.

    I would also use Win 8.1 before I would use 7 again, even tho 7 looked nicer, 8 ran smoother on newer hardware for all my tests.
     
  11. Trouba

    Trouba Administrator Staff Member

    There is nothing that runs smoother than Win7, we all know that :D

    EDIT: I think it's prejudice: People will spend 3 days looking for better Win8/10 drivers but not 20 minutes to find appropriate Win7 drivers :D
     
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  12. The Freezer

    The Freezer Just this guy, you know Staff Member

    Yes, that was one of the first things I did was changed it from AHCI to ATA mode. Even tried partitioning the drive as MBR instead of GPT. Also tried all the legacy and UEFI options. And installing from DVD-rom instead of USB. Plus tried both x86 and x64 versions of Pro, Ultimate, and Enterprise, with driverpacks, etc. Nothing worked.

    But Windows 8.1 would take first time, every time. Weird. :what:
     
  13. Trouba

    Trouba Administrator Staff Member

    Probably has nothing to do with the boot.wim, but if you look in admin that new 7 image has a Win8 boot.wim but it still might not work on those systems.
     

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