Windows XLite

https://windowsxlite.com/

I have just started using and dissecting this wonderful OS and I plan on writing my findings.

So far I noticed James doesn't include Dot.NET 3.5 by default, after I put it back on (which is took ages on a low powered laptop), I noticed that the Memory on boot was up 400MB, which is insane to think that a runtime can bog down the system so much. it also ran the process for about 40 minutes post install using high CPU and tying up the HDD. I really think it may be better to leave this out of future releases and people can enable it from the Programs And Features (or ssWPI again if I update it).

 

I installed the X-Lite Optimum 11 (.1483) build and I noticed a few things:

- clean iso, in that it doesn't have all the setup files (of course, it doesn't have LivePE) ; small install.esd
- in VM, my memory usage was between 1.0 and 1.4gb consistently even after several reboots (.NET 3.5 not installed). I think that's normal memory usage. I installed the "Disable Defender" option so it can't be Defender using more memory.
- space used on drive was small (5gb used) but I did not see compressed folders (it is not clear to me what, besides modern apps, is removed) ; Edge is at v100.x which is about 700mb+ smaller in total than current versions
- I do not like the large and different UI font (nor the setup graphics) ; he may use that larger font because he doesn't want to do UI-scaling and has a 2k or higher res monitor EDIT: I think he may only have applied larger font for the StartAllBack menu
- somehow he/they got Widgets content to work without being logged into an online user account; I always turn that off so maybe it works now without acct login -- EDIT: nope, Win11 now allows widgets to load without signing into online user acct
- I noticed that the rounded explorer corners are showing without Guess Additions/graphics drivers being installed, even on first logon. Not sure how they did that. Maybe that's just because of using latest VirtualBox?
- Win11 is not activated
- the offering/presentation is nice (maybe the main attractor?)

Maybe I'm forgetting a few things. So is this just a matter of having an extensive NTLite xml (and would he share it?) or is he doing something else to make it that lite? Other than it being lite, I don't really see how the user experience (context menus etc) comes close to Last releases, but I may be missing something. I'd also like to know if there are any limitations regarding software or other things with a lite build like this. If there are no limitations -- given the large user-base he appears to have -- that would be very useful knowledge to have to see which components can be safely removed.

Maybe he/they have some exhaustive documentation on how they made the image, what methods and NTLite presets were used. If not, that would make it far less useful if the knowledge isn't shared. If that's the case, and if it can't be sysprepped due it being lited, it won't be of much use. Other than that I can't think of anything just from the install experience. There's potentially some interesting stuff in there (well, mostly it being lite) and I'd like to how that was achieved.

 

I started a chat at TeamOS and he responded, but I am waiting to see if he'll share any tips on his methods as I can see value in having the OS the way he does it. it does run faster than Last11 on older hardware and that is the goal I currently have, it was using 900mb of RAM on both Real PC's I installed to and that is 600 to 800mb less than Last11 on the same machine. having less processes running makes a big difference so it'll be worth following up on his full but lite releases, even if we only gain a little new knowledge it will be worth it as not having my OS so big but tweaked the right way, will mean I'll get even more PC's running that may have just ended up in landfill. In other words I am going to spend some time making a ultra lite OS but with the PE and a few other LastOS things added in to make it another option for when it's needed. It is amazing that it's still a complete OS and is so much smaller (even adding the 6000mb virtual ram file it's under 8GB smaller than my default, like you said Edge and the Dot.NET 3.5 would be a huge chunk, but I'll be doing a compare to the services and other things to see. His removal of fonts is a little strange, but it's something to put back using ssWPI also.

 

Interesting. I tried to get people to like lite OS's for years but no one here seemed to like it at all And it made even more sense then, given Win7 and old hardware. But if he somehow has achieved broad compatibility for softwares with his lite build I would be REALLY interested. I guess I could run the install.esd in a Last11 build (for tweaks) and install it live and install all my usual softs to see how it runs. Tantalizing

EDIT: I'm guessing he's also going with my argument for lite builds, in that you don't update them and that they are, as such, more like "snapshots in time." Given that he put in the 2099 update delay, I would think so.

 

Service Differences (disable when not on ours):

geo location:
lfsvc

Edge Update:
edgeupdate
edgeupdatem

RpcLocator
SysMain
SgrmBroker
webthreatdefsvc
webthreatdefusersvc_99bf0c0 <- Random Number

 

I'm guessing the install footprint on the hdd/ssd isn't that important unless an older machine has a tiny hdd (but that should be upgraded to ssd anyway to give the machine some life, especially for Win11). So it boils down to the services, or memory footprint.

 

You really need to check out his SetupComplete.cmd:

Code:

@echo off
%SystemDrive%
cd\
attrib winpepge.sys -s -h
del /f winpepge.sys
rd /s /q $WINDOWS.~BT
rd /s /q $WINDOWS.~LS
rd /s /q %systemdrive%\users\defaultuser0
rd /s /q %systemdrive%\system.sav
sc config sysmain start= disabled
sc config DoSvc start= demand
wmic UserAccount set PasswordExpires=False
label %SystemDrive% Last11
compact /c /s /i /a /exe:XPRESS8K "%SystemDrive%\Windows\*"
compact /c /s /i /a /exe:XPRESS8K "%SystemDrive%\Program Files\*"
compact /c /s /i /a /exe:XPRESS8K "%SystemDrive%\Program Files (x86)\*"

I just ran it on my main PC and it got GB of space back, as far as I can tell it uses a new NTFS compression that seems to make the whole thing smaller and faster.. I'll be playing with it but it seems really good.

https://www.osradar.com/use-the-compact-exe-command-to-reclaim-space-on-windows/

it doesn't have any overheads, uses the hardware less and it over all a win/win (as far as I can tell). built in to Win 10 and 11

-EDIT-

zz.Compress.Applications.on.C_v2023.04_ssApp.apz

Added to the Repo, forgot to add OS flags sorry

-EDIT-

One of the only downsides is it takes a little longer to write to the compressed folders... but how often do we write to C: ? and I mean very little difference.

 

How about read times? I had seen various releases that used compressed folders, that's why my assumption was that the X-Lite build also did this (but like I said above it doesn't).

I guess with a new performance PC with NVMe drives it would probably not be noticeable (coming from regular SSD).

 

Well I used it on 2 Core Duo Laptops with Magnetic HDD's and it was no doubt faster and used less resources than without it. So I assume the boot speed would be slightly different and then after that you'd be hard pressed to spot the difference, it may even read faster as it has less data to load from disk. Like I said the writing to disk means it needs to compress newly saved PE files, the other files get ignored and are no different in terms of speed.

I am nearly done building a OS with it ran in the SysPrep, to see it it keeps the compression on by default, or if I need to run the ssWPI app I made, post install. It's very interesting to see almost a gig off the install.esd though, so I think it helps. Will update this post pre-install.

-EDIT-

It's set to not compress future added files, so only the OS will be compressed and not anything else you add. it seems to be a good setup IMO. I still need to run the install to see if they are compressed post install, but here's hoping. As it's a new NTFS file system extracted from within the install.esd, it's doubtful though.

-EDIT-

A note worth considering is Windows 8.1, Windows 7 and XP will not read the compressed HDD content as it doesn't support it, so if you dual boot anything less than Win 10 you'd best avoid using it.

-EDIT-
No it didn't keep the compression enabled post install, I updated the ssApp to wait until it completes, so users know not to reboot the PC.

-Final Edit-
The space saved for my OS install after running the script is 4GB, so worth doing on a 64 - 128gb ssd for sure and like I said, my first tests on old hardware seemed positive, but more testing is needed before I can say for sure.

 

Also did you ever fix the Text not working in the Photoshop Lite version?

 

Yeah, I'm thinking the compression is done at firstlogon stage on the images that I've seen that feature it, but I hope I'm wrong

About PS, yes, what it needs retained is \Required\sensei_models\Deep_Font\ -- later on in v24 they consolidated font into the sensei models folder. Previously, DeepFont was just an experimental feature so it was separate and could be enabled/disabled, but now it is integrated in sensei models. Earliers sensei models was Tree images for tree borders which was present in the Presets folder; a lot of changing around in newer versions of PS. Sensei models folder has more folders/features than DeepFont, but if you want only to add the font support then keep just that. I could make a ppApp of the newest PS with it enabled and upload it tonight

 

I think the compression only shows up/is functional on installed OS. Since install.esd is compressed itself, I doubt compressed folders at capture would produce any size difference in the install.esd, but I could be wrong.

 

Thanks mate, I'd really appreciate it as I don't like my 2.09GB one I've included when I know your <700mb one is possible

-EDIT-

I am not 100% but I think by running the compression in the SysPrep it may actually link the files that are the same file again, meaning WinSXS files are correctly linked to the System32 .dll's etc after compressing them. This made my install.wim smaller... I may be wrong, but it just seems like this Picnic build is a lot smaller than I was used to.

 

Ps lite came out at 732 mb. DeepFont verified to be working Upping it now.

 

Oh it does stay compressed in the VM after your re-start a SysPrep OS to update/mod.. so there is that.

 

As I am working on some new methods, I thought I'd try building a new WinPE, PhoenixPE-2023.03.28-64.7z worked, but I didn't like it. I then tried to get my SetMaxResolution to work again, I can't now, no matter what I do. it's pretty much broken.. Anyway I did notice using a Pro instead of a LTSC, I do NOT get the folder issues when making a new folder is inaccessible through explorer. along with moving folders also doing the same.. ANYWAY I now can't get Audio to work, so I'll try the recommended OS (win 10 20H1 2004) https://windowstan.com/download/windows-10-20h1-2004-x64/

I'll work on it more tomorrow (well today, it's near 1AM), but I am glad that bug is gone and if I lose music playback to have that fixed, it's well worth it.

-EDIT-

20h1 has working folders and audio... so a bonus.

 

WinNTSetup has a Mode combo box down the bottom right that allows you to set it to compress on installation. it doesn't work when you use Unattend.xml to compress at install time, so if you know what your doing with partitions and boot drives, then WinNTSetup can save you time if you choose to run with compression. I think it may do the whole drive though and not just .exe .dll etc, I'll need to test it... back soon.

-EDIT-

Nah seems to only do PE files - so all good.

-EDIT-

Even better, the Screen Res works in this version of the WinPE Build again, just not on VM's - which is fine.

 

Windows X-Lite 'Optimum 11' V2 (22621.1635) released: https://windowsxlite.com/Optimum11V2/

- He changed the Setup graphics a bit which I like -- he may have read this thread; if so, cool
- This version has with & without Edge; again, interesting that he achieved that and how
- The build now has optional transparency -- he may have gleaned that from one of the Last builds
- Compatibility & options appears to be his strong suit; seems really well done
- Seems like a really trustworthy guy -- one of the few builds out there I would trust to install
- He appears to have done away with StartAllBack as default (not sure, I haven't tried the build yet but I will)
- Uses default Win11 icons etc, which is preferable to me.

Impressive build, will try later when I have some time.

EDIT: I wonder if he disabled Smart App Control as that makes a huge difference in (especially initial) load times of programs (Windows Security\App and browser control). Since I disable this in sysprep VM, I haven't looked into whether this can be achieved via script during install as would probably be necessary in his build process (I don't think he uses sysprep).

EDIT2: Hehe, the setup screen is actually not as it was pictured in the preview, I still don't like it (due to the text)

 

You can mount a wim, make changes and save it as an appended image, then you convert it to a .ESD and when it shows in setup, you can pick which image you want, the good thing is only changed files are part of the new image, so it extracts the original full WIM and applys the changes. my ssOSModder did this, it is also how you offer, Pro and Home in the one image, you can rebase the image offline and it works a treat. He had transparency in the last build too.

 

That's right, but it has been ages since I tried that manually. Not sure how he achieves tweaks, but one way (since talking about mounting wims) would be by loading the reg hives in regedit while the wim is mounted.

 

I have a cmd in the VMCleanup iso's tweaks, it loads the default hive and tweaks it a bit.

 

I've finished building onto his v2 as a base for Lite11 and the size differences were: My base was 3.00GB and his was 2.96GB, but his doesn't have store installed by default as he applys it using unattend.xml scripts... Meaning I have got Lite11 Base as good as his, BUT he does have a lot more services disabled by default, including spool service, SmartScreen and System Guard as well as SysMain etc... I can tweak mine to have these changes to see how they go (as many require manually disabling them before the Sysprep as the reg keys are locked and can not be done from ssWPI)... I do need to consider how much it really makes a difference though as my Base is more aimed at completeness out of the box without having to fight with pre-requisites to get things to function correctly and his is all about low resource usage and the smallest footprint.

His default image was: 2.54GB and didn't contain Runtimes, DirectX, Default apps, Store etc. so I am thinking once I get the processes worked how I want I'll be happy with my Lite Build to release it publicly.