There are even users who are sticking with Windows 8.1 or downgrading to it. And I'm one of those, though in my case it's because the hardware won't let me install Windows 7 much less XP. Fortunately, Windows 8.1 has been ultra-stable so far. Windows 10 kept "breaking" in the worse possible ways for me -- usually after an update gone bad (plus the updates were initiated at the worst possible time: when you're using it!). Also for me I had to do something to get away from "flat-world" -- colors and perception so bad you can't be sure on what you're clicking or seeing. The XP Luna theme goes a long ways to correcting this best for me. It's the most "3D" theme I've encountered. I even made an ssApp in case I had to reinstall Windows 8.1 (which I have not had to do in quite some time). It installs everything but ClassicShell -- I use Trouba's excellent ssApp for that instead. The site I got the stuff for this from (Windows XP 4 Life) has this to say about doing such things to Windows 10: Here's their video (http://team.lastos.org/TheFreezerBo...ws.XP.Luna.Theme.for.Windows.7,.8,.and.10.mp4)
I'm fortunate that, unlike Freezer, my hardware fully supports Windows 7. If I'm ever forced to move "up" from Windows 7, I'll probably also try to make Windows 8.1 work for me. Two folks over at MSFN that have moved to 8.1 as a desktop OS are NoelC and xpclient. Like Freezer, xpclient moved to 8.1 for hardware reasons, while NoelC did so originally to stay as "current" as he could, while maintaining as high a performance level as possible. Both have refused to move to Windows 10, though they both have tried hard to hammer 10 into a workable solution, and both have given up any likely hope that they will ever move to 10 with the way things with MS are going. NoelC has done extensive work with 8.1 to make it into a stable and capable solution for him, and he has shared the details of what he has done, along with the particular tests he has done to verify its performance. In most tests, Win 7 is slightly faster than 8.1, but 8.1 does win a few tests, and overall NoelC has been quite satisfied. He gets rid of the MS store and all of the MS "apps", and uses his system in a "desktop" mode only and locks it down tight. He also minimizes the number of active process running in order to maximize his system's performance. [ He even wrote, and sells, an eBook with the necessary details of how to set up an 8.1 system for those that want to exactly duplicate his results.] Here's his three-screen layout: and here's a detail of his desktop showing how he uses some 3rd party apps to improve its appearance and functionality: Some threads you might find of interest that explain some of the details of what he does and why are: A REALLY USEFUL Win 8.1 Desktop Craving an updated UI experience? Re-skin Windows 8.1. Know Any Windows 8.1 File System Performance Tweaks? Sphinx Windows er, 10, Firewall Control - He allows minimal communication from his system, especially to MS Windows 8.1 Privacy and Windows Update, et. al. Anti-Malware Suggestions - He, like many of us, doesn't believe in having a lot of active AV interfering with system performance Gotcha / Glitch after December Windows 8.1 Updates - He uses "pure" files from MS that always pass SFC Comparitive Benchmarks With and Without Aero Glass (Win 8.1) - He doesn't want anything interfering with system performance So, with apparently more work than Win 7 required, 8.1 seems to be able to be made into a safe and stable OS with reasonable performance and functionality. I can see that an 8.1 system configured similar to NoelC's, along with the LastOS tools and advantages, could be a satisfying system for many people. Whether 8.1 will be supported as long as or longer than Win 7 remains to be seen.
Wow, bp. That is a lot of useful info there. Thank you! I do like the Aero Glass theme. There's work on that too: Aero Glass For Windows 8+ at glass8.eu and MSFN.org. But even with Windows 7 it was slightly difficult to tell inactive windows from the active one. Though the Luna for Win8.1 I'm using doesn't change the color of inactive windows either (like they do/supposed to on XP's Luna). I think that may be a limitation to Win8.1 itself (or a limitation of the UXTheme patcher I'm using). Anyway, it'll definitely be worthwhile to checkout NoelC's improvements. I'll also be taking another hard look at Glenn's AwakenOS. A combination of the two could perhaps make for some really satisfying results.
NoelC has been extensively involved with the testing of Aero Glass, to the point that you will note that NoelC's theme is available for download on the Aero Glass site. +1 That's what I was thinking. As Glenn mentioned in the Shoutbox, there are folks who prefer Win 8.0, or can't run Win 8.1 because of older hardware that 8.0 can still run on, but overall the hardware and software support for 8.0 is comparitively minimal, so a build based on 8.1 seems a better option.
I saw that NoelC was using an Aero Glass theme which is why I mentioned glass8.eu ... I should've realized there was a connection when I saw it's using the MSFN forum for feedback. Confusingly, Glenn also said, "almost all hardware works with 8.1 compared to 8.0"... which strikes me as the more likely scenario as I've never heard of anyone having trouble upgrading to Windows 8.1 (from Win 7 or Win 8). Plus, Glenn had commented (above): which is what made me think of taking a closer look at AwakenOS Also, with all this renewed interest in Windows 8.1, perhaps we should pull these posts into a public thread instead for non-admins who might benefit as well -- as they are off-topic for a Last10 thread anyway LOL
One particular feature introduced with Windows 8 that's rather useful is the keyboard-shortcut ⊞Win+X which opens Quick Links menu (where the Start button would be/is) that gives access to several frequently used features of Windows such as Task Manager, Control Panel, System Properties, Computer Manage, Device Manager, Disk Management, Power Options, Network, etc. With Windows 8.1, it added a shortcut to shut down or restart the computer. So for example, if I type "⊞Win+X, P" it takes me directly to Control Panel.
I've made an apz combining some of the theme works of Big Muscle (Glass8 DWM), NoelC (Theme Atlas), and XP4Life (Luna Theme). Now available in our repo: Aero.Glass.for.Windows.8.1+_v1.4.6_Win8_x64_ssApp.apz (http://repo.lastos.org): This ssApp defaults to NoelC's theme atlas and also installs XP4Life's Windows 8.1 Luna Theme version 2 from which you can select using Control Panel's Personalize (Themes). Together these two uniquely give the Luna Theme the Aero Glass treatment! I'll probably get banned from MSFN as I've secretly removed those nagging pop-ups and annoying watermark from BigMuscle's Glass 8 Later, I'll make a ppTweak incorporating more of NoelC's Win8.1 improvements. Then I'll try out all these with Trouba's Last8 and Glenn's AwakenOS
I'd tweaked the (latest, v4.4.134) Open-Shell ssApp a little bit with assembly but mostly tweaks for Windows 8.1 with my own personal preferences -- such as to activate the classic explorer toolbar. (as I'm probably the only one still using Win8... that and XP, of course)
Both Apz I've been working on for Win8.1 have gotten overhauls: Aero.Glass.for.Windows.8.1+_v1.4.6_Win8_x64_ssApp.apz Open-Shell_v4.4.135_NT6_ssApp.apz These only improve Windows 8.1 appearance (so far as I've gotten) with, in my opinion, a Windows 7 Aero likeness that gives better clarity and depth. There's still more work to be done on improving functionality -- and this has already been a big step toward improving that; but the list for making Win8.1 better seems to be getting longer for me everyday.
I ran Win8.1 (my image with these type of tweaks) on one PC but the available Win8.1 drivers for my graphics card are very few and not stable. Unlike with Win7 or 10 I get these display crashes so it didn't really work out for me. Shame because as an OS it was a lot more peppy than Win10 (very noticeable) and the Win7 theme with transparency was working so well it almost made me forget I was on Win8.1, but in the end the display crashes is what did it in.
It's a shame about the drivers. Seems kind of needless to me. I understand the hardware differences between x86 vs x64 make it necessary and I even understand some of the changes that were made between NT5 & NT6 also (probably) made it necessary. But why between NT6 versions? Drivers for Win2K work just fine with XP and Win2003 so why do I have to find separate drivers for Vista or 7 or 8.1 or 10 ?!? Hell I'm not even sure drivers for 8 are compatible with 8.1 (and vice-versa). For example, my "Intel HD Graphics Driver" I have in two flavors: Win8.1_x64 or Win10_x64. That's so that I can switch between 8.1 or 10 if I want to. And I'm not even sure if a Win7_x64 option is available at all. The ones I do have were hard enough to find as it was.
By the way, I tried out your Last8 for a couple weeks. Seem to work great but I never could get rid of the "Activate" watermark. Then earlier this week I kept getting endless BSOD's/Reboot cycles. Probably something I did as I was still messing around with the theming stuff extensively till it broke. LOL But right now I'm wrestling with the evil Green Bar of Death.
LOL, yeah those themepacks and loaders can really mess an OS up. I remember on Win7 I tried some whole-theme (replacement of resource files, etc.) visual styles and got into some endless bootloops. As far activation, did the System windows (Computer > right-click > Properties) show the OS activated but somehow the desktop message remained or was it not activated at all? I hadn't come across that problem but it is possible that even that was an artifact of the theming stuff in case where system files get replaced. Otherwise I think it was KMSpico I used as activator which should be under X:/sources/$FirstLogonApps
Yes, a month or two ago I was looking into creating a Win7 that is geared toward newer hardware; it utilizes an OS patch (.dll) that allows newer CPU to install Win7 because that was disallowed at the hardware level by MS and hardware manufacturers. Well besides that it also requires a bunch of newer drivers, including NVMe capability which MS made some patches for at the time but unless respective drivers are already integrated in boot.wim and install.wim it might not even allow you to install on some hardware (especially newer chipsets and nvme drives). Anyway, I finished the image but never uploaded it nor did I really test it but in theory it should be as compatible with newer hardware as you can about get for Win7. It further uses Win10 boot.wim so it allows you to use install.esd for Win7 (Win7 boot.wim/setup won't allow that). I also made such an image around the time I made the Win8 but never uploaded it then either but maybe next time around I'll make an updated L7 based on this approach and a regular one without added drivers. The one I have now is about 2 months old so not really up to date in a strict sense. Anyway I was thinking you might want to try that version to see if you can get it to work on newer hardware as you weren't able to before. But to your point, Intel now has USB3.1 hardware for which they have not released drivers at all and people are saying they did this in coordination with MS as to further force people into Win10. Some people were modding the drivers but if you don't release any they can't be modded either, sly move. So on certain Intel-based mobo's and also AMD based boards with APU's (CPU with integrated graphics) you can't really install Win7 even if you mod it that way. With the Intel based boards you do have to option to just install a 6 port PCIe based USB3 card. But other than those instances you should be able to install Win7 on many "newer" systems.
I'm not sure. After the BSOD's I'd moved onto a Gen2 build (Enterprise June 2016) which is the one currently giving me those really annoying GBOD's. A bug from the Vista-era that's still plaguing even Windows 10...! Before your Last8 I had been on Glenn's AwakenOS (v8.13). It was pleasant enough -- my girlfriend said "pretty" -- and kind of fun watching our tools in action. Also nice was the LiveCD -- a sort of working OS immediately available when you need it which you can then install it permanently on your hard drive from there if you want. Unfortunately it was only briefly used. It was based off the Home edition which doesn't have what I need (group policy, networking, etc.) and besides that, if you don't remember to change the user password right after the install then you're kind of locked out. I may give Last8 another go since I won't be messing with system files for a while. I also have some more recent Gen2 Ent builds (Aug 2018) I should tryout as well.
Yeah I ran into a Win10 bug where it gives error messages in Action Center along the lines of "An app default was reset" which happens when certain file formats are or are not associated with certain programs (I suspect modern apps only) which when I looked it up is going back at least 2 milestones and is still here in LTSC. There is a reg tweak to clear that which I added to the L10 template which appears to do the trick when I tried fresh automated install in VM. The Last8 image is only a few months older, you should try it again You can also see if WU works as expected, should be able to update fully. It has more value (especially real life) since you can update the template with newer tweaks, apps, SetupS, hosts, see if the activator works, etc., because it has all that configured already in the template. You might be able to place the Gen2 install.esd in the L8 image (you could try it in VM) and see how that goes if you don't want to download any updates. L8 wasn't that bad to do, but what makes it suck is having to use Powershell to download updates within the VM when using sysprep. BTW it looks like you changed the Win10 Open Shell reg settings too? Or maybe I never got around to correcting it, but when I tried the LTSC install which was a Last10 build so tweaked, it gave me an extra status bar on windows But it could be that I never accounted for that in the OpenShell W10 tweaks and then regged the L10 to show the status bar, or something. But I didn't think so because the Win7 start menu button was also applied. I guess what I'll do is make an Open Shell ssApp with "Trouba" in the name or something, so we can have some different defaults for people to try (and so we know what's what).
Not that I know of. Should be the same as the one from "Open-Shell_v4.4.133_ssApp.apz" as that's the one I worked off of originally (and updated it to v4.4.134). Edit: Yes, I just checked. "Win10.reg" was identical for all of them.
OK, I probably updated it only for the LTSC image I made in December then and failed to include it in the public ssApps. I just config'd it differently for a new LTSC image so I'll include it at some point but I'll double-check first against yours for the Win7 one and such.
I did find a bug with SetupS though. %SystemRoot% ("C:\Windows") resolves to %SystemDrive% ("C:\"). And to make matters worse, when saving with ssEditor, it'll automatically substitute "C:\Windows" with %SystemRoot% which SetupS will make "C:\". Presently, the only work around is to use "%SystemDrive%\Windows" instead. I found this when I was trying to place themes in the "C:\Windows\Resources\Themes" and ended up having a "C:\Resources\Themes" folder created. LOL I'm thinking while I'm in there fixing it, I might add a new variable %ResourceDir% which resolves to "C:\Windows\Resources" in addition to perhaps adding a new component for text search and replace.
Hehe, kind of reminds me of an app I was saving that had a ssApp.reg file. It kept creating two lines on top of the reg file (Window Registry Editor Version 5.00) whenever I saved with ssEditor. Turns out it was my fault because I had written it v5.00 in the original .reg file so SetupS was correcting it
Oh yeah. Rufus is pretty amazing. Just need to know what partition scheme the target PC requires (GPT or MBR) and it handles everything else. His site is pretty educational to boot. (sorry, couldn't resist).
I put my comment about WinNTSetup by JFX into the real shoutbox -EDIT (For Prosperity)- One more MAJOR tip, do NOT use Windows Setup it SUCKS!, use WinNTSetup made by JFX, it will install ANY OS to the HDD no bitching about problems, I included it with CosmOS and above OS's so should just be in the SavePE https://msfn.org/board/topic/149612-winntsetup-v3931/ if not then just copy it to the USB stick and run it off that from SavePE or by pressing Ctrl + Shift + F10 and navigating to your USB drive from command prompt and running the exe file from there. It will extract from a WIM or ESD (even on Windows 7 Default Setup), doesn't check for much and you can even set your boot disk with it if it detects wrong, lemme know if you have any luck with it (lots of tutorials and Youtube examples about) if it works or if you take Trouba's method, I have had luck with USB 2 ports also Some Laptops refuse to install from a USB HDD and only work from a thumb drive or even a DVD (no USB boot at all), so it's a fun game and easily the reason I have 1/2 Gray hair at 38 Y/O Another tip/trick is boot to a Win10 PE and use WinNTSetup on a 2nd inserted USB disk, this gets around the whole USB3 install problems etc, I think JFX even lets you pick extra drivers and pre patch the OS tweaks etc, he did a brilliant job of it
