Couldn't figure out or control those GBOD's; so went back to Trouba's latest Last8 (May 2018). So far so good; no "Activation" watermarks, ATM. I'm still exploring some of the Win8.1 tweaks, etc. offered on the iso; but as of yet there's been no problems. Very clean and "no-frills" install. Some of the ssApp/ppApp installs I might've used the "warez" versions instead. Most importantly, no GBOD's! Man, that was super annoying and nearly impossible to get anything important done. But overall I highly recommend this Last8 OS from Trouba -- especially to some of my XP friends who desperately need to up grade to a modern OS on modern hardware. Hardware that won't install Win7 or x86 OS's for some weird/unknown reasons. GAWD, it's so messed up. What was MS thinking?!?
It seams Microsoft dropped backwards compatibility and decided to just go backwards with their OS's instead.
Hey @Freezer, based on your work with Win 8.1 over the last year, I'm just wondering if there has been any more thought of working with Trouba and Glenn to put together a desktop build of 8.1, maybe influenced by both AwakenOS and the thoughts and suggestions of NoelC, that could be shared with others in a rather ready-to-go type of form, or at least detailed instructions of how to accomplish that. As far as Windows updates, tests by NoelC indicate that for both Win7 and Win 8.1 almost all updates after Jan 1 2018 should be avoided expect updates for dotNet and IE, and any specifically required for your hardware or software you choose to run, in order to get the best OS performance. You said that Trouba's current Last8 is the current best starting point. Anything from AwakenOS or any other Lastxx build that you'd like to see added? Which, if any, of NoelC's recommendations have you chosen to implement? Anything you have personally implemented that you could share or that you would suggest? Just looking at what might be my next OS if Win 7 stops meeting my needs, and trying to collect all appropriate info in one convenient place.
Yes it really shouldn't give an activation watermark, Freezer. I since remembered I still had another system I had that Last8 image installed on but I hadn't turned it on for months now, but when I did everything was working fine on it, no watermark or issues. I had also installed the Win7 aero theme with transparency on it and it was still working fine, too. So it should be fine, just remember to skip over certain updates like Malicious Software Removal Tool and such, either for preventing problems with your theming endeavors or even activation (but I think the latter withstands that). Otherwise I'm glad it's working well for you. It may be useful to have an updated version again some time when I get around to it. The reg tweaks among other things create the "System Tools" cascading context menu on both desktop and Computer right click (Win8 still allows customization of the Computer context menu, whereas since Win10 that's no longer possible, although desktop context still is). On older Last images we used to just add items straight to right-click context, but the context menu was getting too crowded/long especially on smaller screens, so we decided to create cascading menus or folders to keep the size of the context menus down. It's handy to have Autoruns, MyUninstaller, Calc, Notepad, Shut down/restart/log off, etc., available right there from desktop right-click. There's a lot of tweaks in the reg file; if you want to add your own, remember there are two instances of the reg tweaks in the iso structure that get applied at different times during the install process: \sources\$RegTweaks\Last8-regs.reg \sources\$OEM$\$$\Setup\$RegTweaks\Last8-regs.reg Then, the same reg file is also made into a SFX exe that runs as well (in case certain tweaks or actions require the powers of an exe to apply) and it is located in: \sources\$PostLogonApps\Win8-Tweaks.exe These are all the same tweaks, so if you add tweaks to that reg file, change it all these 3 locations. The \sources\$OEM$\$$\Resources\Themes folder is where you can add themes (normally the theme's folder and the .theme file outside of it). So if you want to pre-patch the OS with uxtheme patches/patcher (like a SFX of a uxtheme patcher or something that'll work for Win8) you could add themes to that folder. Basically everything in \sources\$OEM$\$$ folder gets overlaid on the install, so if you want to add something to the install somewhere, you can add it there.
With regards to avoiding any updates after Jan 2018 in windows 8 is a VERY bad idea, just because nobody has bothered to make a Meltdown and Spectre virus yet doesn't mean someone wont. I like to live dangerously, but when it comes to hardware level vulnerabilities you can't not patch them just because you only access lower CPU power and loading time slowdowns. Well if it's just a game rig and you don't care about your save games it would be ok to leave it unpatched, but if you have family photos, documents and your whole digital life on that PC, you have to keep it protected. Here is a representation of what your risking:
I just wanted to correct my earlier statement about AwakenOS being Home edition. I looked into it again and it is actually Profession Edition. I'd mistaken "Home" from the LastOS Settings tool which listed Organization as "Home". Also, I don't remember if I had to special partition it with Rufus for GPT or MBR -- perhaps it isn't necessary because of the LivePE it boots into before installing the OS. I don't believe that is requirement either if you're installing from a DVD, correct? But what about installing from a USB-DVD drive? I'll have to do some more tests.
I think unconsciously I might've been heading in that direction. I like AwakenOS's LivePE and its extensive use of ssWPI. Some basic apps/utilities "pack-ins" would be nice; but my personal selections would be very much different from Glenn's & Trouba's -- for example, I still prefer MS Office 2003 or Opera (but we'd probably all agree Malwarebytes v1.75.0.1300 would be best). Other necessities -- my own, I can't speak for anyone else -- such as Piriform's Pro Utilities, Active@, Notepad-mod, K-Lite CodeC, 7-Zip & WinRAR, GIMP, AIMP, Beyond Compare Pro, Foxit Reader, BulkRenameUtility, Unlocker, Desksave, Filezilla, Nero, WizMouse, TeraCopy Pro, HashCheck Shell Extension, just to name a few. And oh, yes... restoring those MS casual Games like Solitaire, etc. that were dropped after Windows 7.
Thanks, good to know. Then all I have to do is wrap it all up into an iso? I used to use ImgBurn but I think I can use something less complex -- such as 7-Zip, perhaps?
Yeah, this is the bogeyman they'll use to force everyone to upgrade to Windows 10. Perhaps so far as to take some sort of hardliner stance that it is "architecturally" impossible to protect Win7 & Win8 from these CPU bug exploits and that only Windows 10 will save the day. Then hardware manufactures (likely Intel) will come out with an exploit-proof CPU -- if they haven't already, I've not been keeping up on this FUD -- and these newer hardware/PC's will only install Windows 10, of course ...
You can extract any .iso with 7-Zip, but I use UltraISO to save bootable .iso's. What I normally do is either just open the .iso you want to change and replace the files in there with ones of your choice and save the .iso (with another name). Or else extract the .iso in a folder with 7-Zip and then make your changes that way (easier). When done, open an original bootable .iso (or my mod) with UltraISO and wipe the contents (in UltraISO) -- just select files & folders and delete. Then drop the contents of your extracted folder in the top pane of UltraISO (either directly as in drag and drop or from the bottom UltraISO pane) and then save the .iso. I've done it a thousand times, works great.
While I've also used almost all of those same apps, I agree that except for the basic and more universally used ones, they should be put on an App disc and/or just left on the Repo to be downloaded by whoever needs/wants them. That would also make the OS that much easier and quicker to download, distribute, and install. Speaking of apps, I think many, if not most, of the ones you mentioned are available in the Repo. I assume you have the others available to share? eg, do you happen to have a current version of TeraCopy Pro? The Repo is a little behind for the Pro version.
I agree I don't put the same apps on my iso's as Freezer would, because I don't hardly put any on there Win8 appears not to have built-in games so they can't be enabled through Features (and subsequently captured as such after sysprep), so the only good option is an ssApp, not integration into the install.wim because my rule is leave install.wim's untouched/unpatched. One might use the iso overlay function of the iso itself, and perhaps work to activate the games through reg tweaks (or else pack it as SFX for automated install) but in my opinion such things are better done through ssApps/ppApps when available. So yes there is nothing I would change because I made it so that people could add to and easily customize the iso. Also, one could easily update the install.wim in this way, just replacing the older/existing one without having to patch anything. Keep the install.wim as is (though you can update it) and achieve all the rest through iso overlay folder and tweaks and pp/ssApps. The point about the Repo and App Discs is right. There is no point in packing an iso with apps and uploading them twice when the content is already online.
Absolutely. I'll have two flash-drives for an RnR. One for the OS in general, and the other with a copy of the latest SetupS and a custom folder for the target PC with the desired ssApp apz's -- and copies of important ppApp apz's in case the target computer doesn't have a ppApps folder or it does but they need updated. Then I simply right-click the apz folder and Send-to SetupS. And the really nice and convenient thing with ppApps is that after installing SetupS and using ssControl Panel to sort the Startmenu (or the LastOS Startmenu Resorting shortcut), those ppApps will be available for immediate use. I'm finding that the only real time I have to deal with iso's is to create that initial bootable USB-flash drive for the OS. Still, it's kind of jarring to come into a fresh OS install without a Startmenu. Momentarily one feels a bit lost.
Indeed! I used to make a Classic Shell (back in those days) SFX that would install at FirstLogon phase, but I was not successful in triggering LastOS sorting in an automated way, so as the latter was my main intent, I just left the SFX out in favor of just including it as ssApp. But yes that would be nice, having the Open Shell start menu installed and sorted in an automated way. Maybe it's possible, but I didn't have much success with the sorting aspect of it. For Glenn packing apps in the .iso made more sense because of public releases and wanting to provide an AIO experience and I agree that's tempting to do but for those who "know the drill" it's not needed.
Not many know that SetupS is CLI capable -- which means it can be executed via command-line, or within a batch/cmd file. So simply add another cmd-file in $Scripts, such as "Run_30_Install.apz.cmd" -- or alternatively add to the end of the "Run_13_Post_Logon_Apps.cmd": Code: rem ** Install ssApps ** FOR %%f IN (%~d0\ssAppsInstalls\*.apz) DO SetupS "%%f" This will install any apz found in the ssAppsInstalls folder. And for Startmenu sorting add this -- which would also "install" any pre-existing ppApps (and ppGames): Code: rem ** Install Advanced Startmenu (LastOS sorted/organized) ** ssControlPanel -LastOS Note: For any of this to work, SetupS has to have been installed prior -- But I believe this is done already during the First_Logon script.
Actually if you use Trouba and my ISO Layouts you can get away with it not being installed first: Code: %~d0\sources\$ssWPI\Tools\ssControlPanel.exe -LastOS The batch file you call with this line must be on the ISO and not on "C:\Windows\Scripts\" or it will try and replace %~d0 to C: instead of the ISO drive letter.
Very true. And one would simply use something similar for installing apz's. Admittedly, I myself had forgotten that ssWPI has the SetupS tools there already. Although having SetupS installed just makes it more convenient since it sets up the paths correctly. But either way works.
Not really. I'm still using TeraCopy Pro v2.3. Which others are you looking for? Mine have a tendency toward being older versions. (I.e., still works with XP, or pre-freemium versions, etc.)
Why I find Windows 8.1 more suitable than Windows 7 I don't think this link necessarily adds anything to the other links to NoelC's comments about Win 8.1 that I've already listed earlier in this thread, but it does reinforce some of the benefits of Win 8.1 that NoelC and xpclient have found over Win7, along with mentioning the 3rd party apps that they each use to "correct" the deficiencies of Win 8.1. The MSFN thread might be 3 years old, but it still seems applicable.
Some of the stuff in the article isn't true, or not fully true, or not true anymore. WinSxS clean up is no longer better (this is a 2016 post), USB3 support and .esd support can be achieved in Win7 "though 3d party apps" (haha, what is true for one is true for the other). "DOZENS of Registry fixes to make it work like the way I want - more like Windows 7" -- I like that one especially "All the Metro crap uninstalled, default programs set to Win32 apps, Group Policies to disable crap like OneDrive, Bing Search and Customer Experience Improvement Program, it is OK." -- Translation: more like Win7 But yeah Win8 is fine, just uglier! It's interesting that people are fine with their imagined "hard ceilings" of esd support, driver support and DON'T EVEN TRY ANYTHING TO FIX THAT FOR WIN7 but will spend countless hours finding 3d party apps and hacking system files to achieve a Win7 look and experience on Win8.
He does mention that drive speed on USB 3 ports is faster in Windows 8 (and even 10 IMO) than using the drivers on Win 7, due mostly to the kernel accessing them directly instead of being fed the stream through a 3rd party driver. It's not always major, but I have seen differences of 96MB/s compared to the 158MB/s through Windows 10 when copying larger files (thousands of small files go slow on any OS), so he has a point with this comment. Newer hardware support can't be beaten with Win 7 or even 8 IMO, real Bluetooth v4 devices will only use legacy modes on Win 7 if your even able to get drivers. But many of us are still on old hardware using old peripherals so I can fully understand there is no need to move away from windows 7 in this case. Windows 7 can defrag your SSD's if you don't disable that - making the drives fail a lot quicker than if using Win 8+ Now the benefits of Win 7 over 8 & 10. Pretty, logical, keeps user set changes including GPol's, updates are reasonable and ignorable, menu's are simple and sort-able and there are many others but these alone make it worth using if you don't have time to be interrupted by Updates installing when you need to use your PC, or failing and stuck in a boot loop and needing a restore. It might be fun to build a fully up to date OS's one day soon
I think the people pushing Win8 have Win8 era hardware mostly, same with the ones pushing Win7, or 10 It could be that there are some in-between situations where one or other OS might make more sense. But if you could run Win7, would you run Win8 (eww) for just USB3 speed? No way in Hey-ell. It's because they can't run Win7 and then interpret that lack of choice as a reason to find the good things about Win8 is what's really going on. Which is fine, but heck everyone on Earth would be running Win7 if it weren't for the hardware limitations. It's just that in a lot of cases these can be overcome. It just struck me that they obviously haven't even tried to get Win7 to run in any practical way, yet spend so much time on making Win8 palatable, that they might as well have tried to get Win7 to work. But it's not for everyone, nor would it work in all situations. But as far as power users go, it seems odd they wouldn't even try yet spend so much time on Win7-fying Win8.
I for one wouldn't bother with Win8.1 if I could get Win7 working on the hardware. And if it's between Win10 and Win8.1, then hands down Win8.1 is the only one for me. With so many apps discontinuing support for XP & Vista -- which also includes Win2k3 for me -- I either have to continue using the latest version to support them or find alternative apps. Though I'm not sure I understand the reason/issue with Vista -- it basically introduced the new base hardware platform (for the whole NT6 line to follow). On a related note, Android seems to be having parallel issues with hardware versus versions versus apps. Which I think is a big reason why CyanogenMod and LineageOS have been so popular.
Win8 does run a lot better/faster than Win10 in my experience. Getting Win7 to run is probably possible but you'd have to use that image creation tool I have linked to before a couple of times; in fact I've used it to make 2 images in that past that have integrated nvme and usb3 and chipset drivers and all that, but it would still be a case by case basis whether it'll work or not and how much effort you're willing to put into it (though I never uploaded those images).
